Recruiting Hell: Episode #50

recruiting hell
recruiting hell

Recruiting Hell: Episode #50

Life is going great until one day you’re out of work.  No matter how it happened. You need to find a new job pronto. The problem is, no one ever taught you how to navigate ever shifting and ever changing wasteland of applying for a job in the modern market.

When Job Hunting is Digital, Analogue Outreach is Huge

Everybody puts in their resume, especially if they haven't written by a resume writer. I am energetic, creative, out of the box, thinker. Yes, but everybody said that this morning. I read 400 of these, so don't tell me, show me.



Recruiting Hell: Episode #50 - When Job Hunting is Digital, Analogue Outreach is Huge

[00:00:00.190] – David Perry

Everybody puts in their resume, especially if they haven’t written by a resume writer. I am energetic, creative, out of the box, thinker. Yes, but everybody said that this morning. I read 400 of these, so don’t tell me, show me.

[00:00:17.710] – Robb Conlon@ Recruiting  Hell

Hello, listener, and thank you for tuning in to a very special 50th episode of Recruiting Health. Our guest today is somebody who is probably the biggest guest we’ve ever had on the show, and it’s my pleasure to bring you his content over the next few episodes. Here to look forward to helping you with your job Hunt. We’ve come a very long way in a very short time, and this episode is dedicated to all of you who have tuned in week after week to learn about better ways to Hunt for a job. And now, without further Ado, the 50th episode of Recruiting Hell. Life is going great until one day you’re out of work.  No matter how it happened. You need to find a new job pronto. The problem is, no one ever taught you how to navigate ever shifting and ever changing wasteland of applying for a job in the modern market.

[00:01:12.390] – Robb @ Recruiting  Hell

I’m Rob Conlink and here on Recruiting Hell, I help people get jobs. I’m on a mission to help educate 100 job seekers on the best ways to get hired in the modern job market. No matter your field, this show is designed to help you level up your job-hunting game and escape the many circles of Recruiting Health. Step into my studio and let’s get you the hell out of here. This episode of Recruiting Hell is generously supported by our friends at CoinList, one of the fastest growing companies in the cryptocurrency space. Coinlist is hiring. Visit www. Coinless. Cohost to apply. Tell them Rob sent you hello and welcome to Recruiting Hell. I’m your host, Robb Conlon. Part of the reason for the challenges that we have in job hunting is that finding work in the modern era has been systematized and mechanized to a point where we’re sell all simply a string of zeros and ones in most application systems. It’s pretty tough to differentiate yourself when heartless computers are doing the application sorting and don’t necessarily understand the nuances of your resume. And that’s why a major part of our mission here to educate 100 job seekers through this show is to help you find better ways to apply for jobs that are able to reach the more human side of the application process.

[00:02:42.050] – Robb @ Recruiting  Hell

Today we bring on a tremendous resource for these strategies. David Perry has been involved in the hiring and recruiting business for over 30 years and has not only seen the evolution of the hiring process from the recruiting side, but has also used his vast knowledge to create amazing resources for job seekers. David is the Managing Partner of Perry Martel International, author of Guerrilla Marketing for Job Hunters 30, and recipient of the Queen Elizabeth II Diamond Jubilee Medal, which means he’s in a very exclusive club that has been honored by the world’s favorite monarch for his work in giving back to his home country of Canada by building schools. He’s here today to continue that amazing trend of giving by helping us with some pretty mind blowing strategies, a few unique approaches, and some fun stories that you can help to power up your own job Hunt. David, it’s great to have you here. Welcome to the show.

[00:03:33.680] – David Perry

Thank you very much, Rob. I’m happy to be in recruiting.

[00:03:36.730] – Robb @ Recruiting  Hell

Hell, you’re one of the few people I think. Excellent. So hey, one of my other favorite podcasts out there says it’s time for all meat no filler. So let’s dive into this. You and I today, we probably had one of the most incredible prepodcast meetings that I’ve actually ever had in the roughly 50 some episodes of this show that exist. You and I talked for 90 minutes, which is kind of wild. And listeners, if you are thinking like, wow, that doesn’t seem like hugely long. The average pre call for this show and many other podcasts is like 30 minutes or less. So, David, you described some amazing strategies that I really enjoyed, and it was a great preview for me that have helped a lot of people that you know and that you’ve worked with get jobs throughout the years. The one that really stuck with me, though, and probably because it’s that alliteration CCC is called a coffee cup caper. What the heck is that? And how do we use it to get a job?

[00:04:34.380] – David Perry

Well, actually it’s called the Starbucks Coffee Cup Caper because nobody doesn’t like Starbucks. You can go and Google this. Put brackets around Starbucks coffee cup and you’ll get it all explained to you through Google. But the Starbucks coffee cupcake is pretty simple and you use it when you’re going after your top ten list, which I think we’re going to top it up sometime tonight. So essentially what it is, there’s a bunch of components. There’s a gorilla resume. It’s a one page resume. There’s your cover letter. There is an empty Starbucks Cup. Never been used. Folks, do not save up your Starbucks cups and try and reuse them. Seriously, we’ve had people do this doesn’t work.

[00:05:14.910] – Robb @ Recruiting  Hell

Oh, really?

[00:05:16.190] – David Perry

Seriously, I’m not making this.

[00:05:17.780] – Robb @ Recruiting  Hell

You can’t make a shit up.

[00:05:18.780] – David Perry

You just can’t. And you go down to Staples and you buy a mailing box that’s about three inches by three inches by three inches square and about a feet long. They cost, I think, $9 for ten of them. So there’s the box, there’s the cup, there’s the letter. There is the resume. And you roll these things up together, stick them and roll your resume in your cover letter. Put them in the cup, put the cup in the box, seal the box, and then you send it to a hiring manager. You already know the name of the hiring manager. Talk about that. A little bit later. But you know the name of the hiring manager, you know their address, and you send it by FedEx, not Brown, nobody else. Fedex two day delivery. And it’s two day because it’s cheapest. And when they deliver it, you get a Ping in your email. So you wrap this thing up and you throw it in the mail. And what happens is it gets delivered and you get an email, and then you phone the hiring manager about 45 minutes after you get this email because you have the hiring manager’s phone number, you pick up the phone and say, hey, Rob.

[00:06:22.080] – David Perry

David Perry, I think it just got my package. And they’re looking around like there’s cameras. They laugh. We have never had this blow up on anybody. And what it does, really. And the letter says, blah, blah, blah. I want to meet you for a coffee. That’s the whole reason you’re sending a coffee cup caper. Love to have a coffee. And if you are sending it to someone in a different city, the cover letter simply says, and I’ve included the coffee. And you just put in one of those freeze dried they’re not called freeze dried or called microgreens from Starbucks and just stick it in the box. And no one turns down coffee. It just doesn’t happen. So what that does is it starts the conversation because most people that’s the most difficult thing, right? They can get the job if they can get the interview. They can get the interview if they can get hold of the hiring manager. So the Starbucks Coffee Cup Caper, a friend of mine designed this about ten or twelve years ago. It’s probably been used, I don’t know, 10,000 plus times. It’s been used so often, Rob, that if you go into we know this.

[00:07:29.950] – David Perry

I have two daughters that have worked in Starbucks, but you can go into a Starbucks anywhere in North America and tell them you need ten never used empty Starbucks cups. And somebody like you to say, is that for the Starbucks coffee cupcakes? And you can laugh and say yes, and they’ll give them to you, they’ll give you the cups. So that’s just a cup paper. It’s extremely effective.

[00:07:55.350] – Robb @ Recruiting  Hell

Interesting. Okay. I didn’t realize how much is tied in to the second question we’re going to ask here in just a little bit, which was the top ten. So I feel like I put the cart before the horse a little bit here. But I want to follow up just a little bit on this Starbucks Coffee Cup caper feel, I guess, because you’re saying you found all this stuff, all this information about the hiring manager, and you’re sending them a package, and then you’re calling them to be like, you got my package. Right. And how do we make that not feel stalky, David?

[00:08:29.030] – David Perry

It’s not because you don’t say you got my package, you got my delivery. This is David Perry. I see you just got my delivery. People laugh I mean, I’ll give you an example. In fact, we actually still have the audio. I had a guy on one of our job search boot camps a couple of years ago, maybe six or seven years ago, sales guy. And this was day eight on the boot camp. And he adamantly would not do this. We got to the end of week two, and he should have done this. And it was Friday, and I guess he’s just having a bad day. And he said, this is the stupidest thing I’ve ever heard in my entire life. And I said, you know what? I said, you may be right. It may be really stupid, but you have to do it. And here’s what we’re going to do. You pick a company that you want to work for and that you’ve tried to get into and you’ve got an Adamant no. Pick somebody you want to work for and you got an Adamant no. And you do the Starbucks coffee cupcake or on them name was Jeff.

[00:09:31.950] – David Perry

And I said, and if you don’t, you’re fired. I said, we’ll talk Monday and you’re fired. I’ll give you back your money. Don’t care. You’re out of the boot camp. So he did it. And the reason we know he did it is because middle of the afternoon on Monday, I get this email sent to me with a voice clip on it. And the voice clip is this woman who is working for this company. So here’s what happened. Jeff had gone to this company he wanted to work for, and he sent it in a resume three times over two years. Never got a response. So we sent the coffee cup caper to this VP of sales.



[00:10:07.160] – David Perry

She called them back. What you put in the letter is all dictated, but she called them back and she said, Hi, Jeff, my name is and I got your very creative package today, and I am a huge Starbucks fan. Now, I have no idea if we have something that would be suitable for you, but I’m going to have so and so and so and so. I give you a call because that certainly warrants a meeting. Now, if it ended there, that would be fine. So he sends us this. We get on the call on Mondays. We do Monday morning marching orders, and he’s telling us all this stuff. And I just happened to be in Milwaukee about a month later. And Jeff comes down to meet us. He’s just outside Chicago and he drives down to meet us. And I got the video. I can’t make this up. And we’re sitting around having lunch. And I asked him, So what was the best thing you learned on the course? And all of a sudden his phone rings. It’s the employer.

[00:11:06.360] – Robb @ Recruiting  Hell


[00:11:07.210] – David Perry

Oh, you can’t make this up. I got it on video. So we’re sitting having lunch, right? I got this all on video. And the phone rings and it’s Jeff. And he takes the phone call. He’s getting the offer right in front of Steve and I at lunch, right.

[00:11:23.560] – Robb @ Recruiting  Hell

It’s incredible.

[00:11:24.710] – David Perry

He hangs up and he says, blah, blah, blah. And I said, well, shouldn’t you call your bride to be? He’s getting married in three days. I said, shouldn’t you call your bride to be and tell her to phone her father because it’s okay. He’s not giving away his only daughter to a bum now. So he accepts the offer, goes on, gets married, goes on his honeymoon, comes back, starts a job.

[00:11:50.490] – Robb @ Recruiting  Hell

Wow. All because of the coffee cup caper.

[00:11:53.160] – David Perry

All because of the coffee cup caper. And this is the guy that did not believe he did not believe that we were friends. We’ve been friends for years. I have that video. I still have it. I got it on one of the websites. I should put it up.

[00:12:05.210] – Robb @ Recruiting  Hell

Just you told me.

[00:12:06.020] – David Perry

So it’s just. But we get to stop. This is real life, right?

[00:12:11.660] – Robb @ Recruiting  Hell


[00:12:12.000] – David Perry

Yes, this is real life. And this is an example of everybody puts in their resume, especially if they haven’t written by a resume writer. I am energetic, creative, out of the box thinker. Yeah, but everybody said that this morning. I read 400 of these. So don’t tell me. Show me. The biggest thing you can do as a job Hunter, especially in the digital age, is go analog. Go analog. Go analog. You know, we always tell people if you’re going to apply online, phenomenal apply online. Your resume is you got a one in 1000 chance, maybe one in 10,000 chances it’s going to be sucked in by the ATS. And it’s going to either spit it in or going to spit it out. And I’ll tell you a secret in a second. But you can’t if anybody listening to this cannot tell anybody that I told them this, I’ll get in real trouble. I can’t. Okay. So if you’re going to apply online, do yourself a favor. Take a piece of paper, an envelope and a stamp and apply again, but this time put it in the mail. Nobody gets penalized for applying twice.

[00:13:20.320] – Robb @ Recruiting  Hell


[00:13:20.760] – David Perry

You don’t know if that digital thing is ever going to get through. You have no clue. Right. And they don’t phone you up because they didn’t get it and say, hey, I didn’t get your stuff because they don’t even exist. So send them a paper copy. Nobody’s ever been denied an interview because they sent two resumes.

[00:13:35.970] – Robb @ Recruiting  Hell

Got you. Dave, you said the best job hunting is hard. It sucks and it’s awful. Something that you mentioned the other day, too, was about this. And I think this is where we’re going to get to the top ten. You said that we aren’t taught how to job ever.

[00:13:52.050] – David Perry

Show of hands, folks in the right now, how many people in the crowd show of hands are using their advanced math skills today. None of you right. Me neither. Okay. Me neither. Why couldn’t they teach me something interesting and useful in school? I loved home economics. I learned to Cook.

[00:14:08.880] – Robb @ Recruiting  Hell

Oh, sure.

[00:14:09.360] – David Perry

Yes. Why couldn’t they teach me how to get a job?

[00:14:14.970] – Robb @ Recruiting  Hell

That’s a good question.

[00:14:16.190] – David Perry

I have my own theories. But why? Most schools that do this only do it the last week before you graduate, and they tell you apply everywhere. Talk to your parents, friends, and talk to let everybody know you’re looking for a job. And that’s just bad advice. That’s the basis of networking, right? Leaving your life in other people’s hands. I know we’re going to talk about networking with the newly Department, so I’m going to be quiet now and just follow your lead.

[00:14:45.240] – Robb @ Recruiting  Hell

I’m sorry. Oh, it’s all good, my friend. But hey, you’ve had folks in the past who sought you out to do something a little bit different than what you described there with the hey, talk to your parents. Talk to your friends. Talk to your friends, parents thing. It’s your last week of high school. Now you’re in the adult world. You call these people that you want to talk to the recently departed, as you said.

[00:15:13.170] – David Perry


[00:15:15.390] – Robb @ Recruiting  Hell

You want us to reach out to dead people? What’s up.

[00:15:20.190] – David Perry

Psychic Sue? I’ve been on Psychic South wonderful lady. And I told her at the front end of the show, Suzanne, this is nothing about dead people. So just make sure everybody knows that before I agree to do this. So here’s the concept. Everybody believes that networking is the best way to find a job. And there’s been all kinds of, quote unquote studies and articles that have come out about it. Here’s the absolute truth about networking.

[00:15:44.190] – Robb

Hey, listeners, we’re going to take a quick break here for some of the business side of running a podcast. These sponsors not only believe in this show.

[00:15:50.860] – Robb @ Recruiting  Hell

But they may have a product.

[00:15:52.310] -Robb  Conlon

Service or even an open position that can help you and your job Hunt. Give them a listen and drop by their websites in thanks for their help in supporting this show and your work. Search.

[00:16:02.600] – Robb @ Recruiting  Hell

Hey, folks, it’s Rob. A lot of times on this show, we talk about the power of networking to find a job. Well, networking is exactly how we wound up partnering with our newest sponsor, Coin List. So you’re asking yourself right now, Rob, what is CoinList? Well, Coinless is a San Francisco and New York City based technology company that provides investors with access to the most cutting edge investment opportunities in the blockchain and cryptocurrency space. On Coin list, investors can access the best new crypto tokens before they list on other crypto exchanges. And it pays to be early in crypto. Now, right now, they have two special offers for listeners of recruiting help. The first, as a recruiting help listener, you’ll earn $10 of Bitcoin when you create an account and trade at least $100 worth of assets on the Coinless trading platform. That’s right. You hurt me free Bitcoin. Just visit www. Coinless. Co. Recruitinghealth to get started. The second is something that could end your time in recruiting health altogether. Coinless is hiring. You heard me right. Coinless could be your next great opportunity for work. Excited about cryptocurrency? Got a passion for technology?

[00:17:17.970] – Robb @ Recruiting  Hell

Findcoinlists openpositions today at Coinless Cojobs. That’s Coinless Cojobs. And when you do, be sure to tell them Rob sent you.

[00:17:29.970] – Robb

We’re back a big thank you to our sponsors for their offerings, as well as you for considering them on with the show.

[00:17:36.980] – David Perry

Nobody knows. Again, audience, raise your hand if anybody has ever sent you a survey after you got a job and asked you how you got it. No, not a person. Right? Nobody knows. Study has never, ever been done. I used to have this discussion with Dick Bowles, who wrote Parachute, God rest his soul. And we used to laugh. But anecdotally networking is the best way to find a job, because most people find a job that way. But it’s only after they spent 40 weeks doing everything else and they trip over something because the average job search is 38 to 40 weeks. We’ll talk about that in a second. So networking doesn’t work unless and I’ll tell you why it doesn’t work. It doesn’t work because most people are trying to network into a company they want to work for. They can make their top ten list of companies. Then they try to network their way in to find out about the job and all that kind of stuff. And there’s two problems with that. One is when you’re in a slowdown, the executives will come down from the tower on high into the cafeteria, grab everybody.

[00:18:44.540] – David Perry

Everybody thinks you’re going to get laid off and fired. And they go, Listen, it’s really bad. Oh, no. And they say, So we have a hiring freeze. And everybody goes, Whew, dodged that bullet, right?



[00:18:56.090] – David Perry

So all of a sudden there’s a hiring freeze. What does that mean? Well, hiring freeze means they’re not hiring any more people. It doesn’t mean they’re not going to replace the ones that retire. So we can talk about churn a little bit later. But here’s what happens when it comes to networking. And I’ll use an example that I’ve used on stage many times, and I normally get taken up in the back of the woodshed afterwards. But here’s what happens. Company A is in real trouble. Sales are down and the executives come down. They say, we got a hiring freeze and nobody gets laid off. About an hour and a half later, Jesus comes walking in the reception door. Jesus water, Walker, sandals, the whole nine yards. And he says, Hi, I’m Jesus. I like to talk to the CEO or the hiring manager or whatever about a job, because I can solve your problems. And the receptionist says, they have a hiring freeze. We’re not hiring anybody. Anybody that’s working at that company is going to tell you we’re not hiring anybody. So if you try to network into a company that way, you’re going to get stopped at the front door.

[00:19:58.830] – David Perry

Okay, so there’s an alternative. And this is where this comes in. This is how recruiters do. The smart recruiters. Anyway, what you want to do is you want to network with people who used to work at the companies that you want to go into. Why? Because they’re not prohibited from telling stories. They’re not prohibited from having an opinion. They are not prohibited from sharing. And they will tell you whether the hiring manager or the Department you’re going into is run by a great person or a schmuck. So what you do to find this out is if you pick your top ten companies and we’ll talk about what you have to stop doing as soon as possible today, everybody should stop applying for jobs. We’ll talk about that in a bit. You make a list of your top ten companies you want to work for, companies that can use your skills, that have problems that you can solve. You think? So what you do is you make that list. You take the name of your first company, you put it in Google, and right next to the name of the first company, you put the word resume, and then you put the Department you want to go into.

[00:21:06.680] – David Perry

So pick a company. Pick a company in your town.

[00:21:10.030] – Robb @ Recruiting  Hell

Rob, let’s go with Miller Brewing because it’s Milwaukee, Miller Brewing.

[00:21:14.490] – David Perry

So two words. Miller Brewing in brackets, the next word resume, the next word marketing. Because we want to go into the marketing.

[00:21:22.030] – Robb @ Recruiting  Hell


[00:21:22.320] – David Perry

Could be operations, could be sales, could be administration. Put that word in and change. And then the next word is a negative sign and without any spaces apply. Okay, I’ll tell you why that is in a second. Okay, so what that tells Google to do is go away and bring me back the resumes of everyone who’s ever worked in the marketing Department at Miller Brewing. And the reason you say minus apply is when you say minus apply, it will block out all the ads. Okay, so what you want are the resumes of people who used to work there. You just Google through them and you find somebody that’s been there left in the last six months to a year. It’s a resume. You got their name, the phone number is right there. You phone them up and say, hey, Rob, I just read your resume. What’s happening in their head? Oh, my God. I’m getting called by a recruiter. Goody, goody. And then you say, I’m doing some research. And I noticed that you used to work in marketing at Miller Brewing. Would you mind if I asked you a couple of quick questions? And nine times out of ten, they’ll say, no.

[00:22:25.040] – David Perry

What do you want to know. And that one time out of ten they’ll be annoyed and you’ll say, oh, I’m sorry, is this a bad time? I can call you back later. Then they’ll apologize like any good Canadian.



[00:22:36.450] – David Perry

So what happens is if you do that for your top ten list of companies, you get to find out first hand behind the scenes, the real pluses and minuses of a company. You get to understand if that’s the kind of company that you want to work for. Right? Right. The guy is a slave driver and he’s gone through 15 product managers in the last two years. Well, if that’s not your thing being roadkill, maybe you want to avoid that. Right?


Right. Definitely.

[00:23:12.570] – David Perry

This is a great way to self select out companies that you think you might be interested in and save yourself a lot of time, because otherwise what you’re going to try and do is take your top ten list of companies. You’re going to spend the next weeks, couple of months trying to find someone in those companies who works there. Now that’s going to answer your questions and invite you in, because even though you’re a stranger, they can sense over the phone that you are fantastic individual and they want to go to Bats for you. No network at the newly departed decide if that company is worthy of your even applying. And then as you’re asking this person what it’s like to work there, the second or third question is you go, well, what are the burning issues? And they’ll tell you, so when you do your resume for your coffee cup cap or you do your cover letter, you say, Dear Rob, CEO, vice President of marketing, director of operations, manager, guy at Miller Brewing. My name is and these are the kinds of things that I have solved. I’m being very unsophisticated. These are the biggest three issues I solved at such and such a company.

[00:24:25.220] – David Perry

Well, when Rob gets this, he goes, oh, really? Wow. So he’s reading you. I’ve solved these three problems. They happen to be Rob’s problems.

[00:24:36.440] – Robb @ Recruiting  Hell

Same three that you got.

[00:24:38.200] – David Perry

Right. And you end up a letter with a cop pick up keepers saying, I’m going to be calling sooner than you may think because you’re waiting for that 45 seconds. Right. Or those 45 minutes to get the package there.

[00:24:51.600] – Robb @ Recruiting  Hell


[00:24:51.850] – David Perry

And then you pick up the phone and you go right into the close to have a coffee. You’re not selling yourself. You say, Rob, listen, I know these are your problems because I’ve done my research. I talked to Shelley and Bob and George, and they all say Hi or not if they don’t give you a permission.



[00:25:07.940] – David Perry

Yeah, I’ve solved these problems. I understand they’re yours more than happy to have a cup of coffee and see if I can help you. Oh, I do not hire anybody. That’s fine, Rob. I’m not necessarily looking for a job. Well, I am but you may or may not be the company for me, but I know I can solve these problems. So if you want to have a coffee, I’m available this time. This time, this time.

[00:25:30.830] – Robb @ Recruiting  Hell

Got it.

[00:25:32.730] – David Perry

I can give countless examples of my kids have done it out of high school and College. We’ve had CEOs do this to chairman’s of the board and everything in between. This is novel. This is interesting. And it’s a coffee, for goodness sake. People will go and have a coffee.

[00:25:51.970] – Robb @ Recruiting  Hell


[00:25:52.480] – David Perry

They might not have it in Covet. So you’re going to send the freezed dried one instead. But you’re still going to have a coffee over Zoom.

[00:25:59.970] – Robb @ Recruiting  Hell

Got it. So definitely, we’ve tied the coffee cup caper to the sort of seeking out and the recently departed. And now again, I hope I put the cart before the horse. David, tell us how to find the top ten list.

[00:26:18.750] – David Perry

So, do you want me to tell you about the Monster hack, the LinkedIn hack or the Indeed hack, or do you want me to just tell you how to do it in Google?

[00:26:28.190] – Robb @ Recruiting  Hell

Why not both?

[00:26:30.390] – David Perry

Well, that’s a trick question because it works the same problem.

[00:26:34.950] – Robb @ Recruiting  Hell

I got to have a little bit of fun here. I liked it. I liked it.

[00:26:38.670] – David Perry

It’s really simple. We have an exercise, actually, I have a paper on Covet that takes people through it’s free takes people through a three page overview of what skills do you like to use? Okay, so it’s very simple. But if you can figure out what three skills you like to use that you want to use and that people might pay you for, and we’ll get to that in a second, then what you do is you go to Monster Indeed or whoever, but you go to Monster and you throw in those three skills. And then you hit the search button and you know what you get? You get every single job description that needs those, that talks about and needs those skills. So what you do is you start reading through these job descriptions and go, oh, that’s in that industry. Never even thought about that. Oh, I didn’t know they used those skills. Like, I am a scuba instructor who speaks Spanish and likes to build huts or something like that. You can throw almost anything into Monster and you’ll come up with jobs that take those skills. Then what you do is you sort through those and you decide, okay, well, I want to be one of these.

[00:27:56.490] – David Perry

That sounds interesting. That sounds interesting. That sounds interesting. So you’re finding jobs that use those specific skills. Are you with me so far?

[00:28:03.660] – Robb @ Recruiting  Hell

So far, yes.

[00:28:04.710] – David Perry

Okay. So understand, for every job that’s advertisers about ten that aren’t we called it the hidden job market.

[00:28:14.290] – Robb @ Recruiting  Hell

The dark job marketing.

[00:28:16.550] – David Perry

Don’t be paranoid. It’s not hiding on you personally, but for a variety of reasons, the job hasn’t been advertised. So for every job you find there are ten more just like it. For every job you find in a company, there are probably eight or ten companies just like that one. So all of a sudden, from the three skills, now you’re branching out into, oh, I can go in this industry, this industry, this industry, and in this industry, I like this company. But their competitors are A, B, and C. All of a sudden you’re starting to build your list. Okay, you’re not looking for jobs. It doesn’t matter whether the company has an opening. Totally irrelevant. If you ask the question, how do you turn yourself into a blue chip stock? I’ll answer that. So you don’t need to find a company that’s got an opening. You just need to find a company that will buy those skills. And then when you start looking into those companies and you start to ask the questions about from the newly departed, who’s in charge, what are their issues all of a sudden? Are they good to work for?

[00:29:27.490] – David Perry

All of a sudden you’re taking that list of ten, it may grow to 20 or 30, and you pair it back to ten again as you start to get those questions answered. That’s how you find your top ten list.

[00:29:38.340] – Robb @ Recruiting  Hell

Got it. Okay, so then tying it back to a coffee cup caper when we are looking at so we find our top ten, we’ve taken the skills, we’ve sorted them through LinkedIn or indeed or whatever job search engine we’re using. And we found ten companies in maybe ten different industries that all have the three skills that we’re in, and they’re maybe very new to us. So when I’m boxing up a coffee cup caper for one of these, what is my gorilla resume look like? And then also what is my gorilla cover letter look like?

[00:30:13.430] – David Perry

So, a guerrilla resume is a one-page resume.

[00:30:20.110] – Robb @ Recruiting  Hell


[00:30:20.860] – David Perry

It is accomplishment focused. In the body, down the left hand side of the page are the logos of the companies that you work for or maybe the schools that you went to. If you’re in sales or marketing, perhaps they are the clients that you’ve sold to.

[00:30:44.980] – Robb @ Recruiting  Hell

But it’s one page.

[00:30:46.620] – David Perry

There are logos on the left hand side of the page. When you send this to somebody, they don’t think it’s a resume. And then as you’re reading it, you’ve got your summary, which is, I am a sales crusader or I am a help desk operator par excellence. And then you have your top three skills. And your top three accomplishments, the skills you know they’re going to use because you’ve already researched them.

[00:31:18.070] – Robb @ Recruiting  Hell


[00:31:18.790] – David Perry

And the accomplishments that are going to resonate with that hiring manager, a lot of books and almost every coach I’ve ever listened to or job search guy I’ve ever talked to, they say you have to customize your resume. Now, for most people, they think, oh, I got to change the name and the address of where I’m sending the resume. No, it’s almost like a wedding proposal. It’s got to be special and it’s got to be for that one person. It’s got to mean something to that one person.

[00:31:52.140] – Robb @ Recruiting  Hell

I love that is going to be a graphic for this show. Just so you know, resumes should be like wedding proposals. They should be special to the person. Doesn’t matter who it is, because the wedding proposals that worked on my wife is not the one that’s going to have worked on your wife or the one that’s going to go work on his husband or future husband or whatever it might be. Yeah, I love that, David. That’s excellent.

[00:32:18.850] – David Perry

Well, thank you. I’ve actually never had it split back that way because it’s never come out of my mouth that way. So this is good. I’ve learned something, too, and I’ll remember that as well because I’m going to get a copy of this. So that’s what happens when you’re networking with. That’s why you want to network with the newly departed. That’s why you want to find out that information. That’s how you set up the entire system so that every single piece of literature that goes out doesn’t have to be changed much name, all that kind of stuff. But the accomplishments have to be relevant to the reader that’s going to get it. And now what you have to do is make sure the reader is going to get it. So whether it is the coffee cup caper or the Trojan thank you note or the email chain letter doesn’t matter. Your information has to make sense to the person that’s going to get it. Does that help?

[00:33:12.470] – Robb @ Recruiting  Hell

Absolutely. And those other two strategies, we’re going to talk about those in a little bit, but I want to linger on this one just a pinch longer because this one seems like of all of them, the one that is the most networking involved. And this I want to circle back to the part of interviewing sort of the recently departed David, because we’ve talked about on the show in past episodes. Listeners, if you’re looking for more of the networking for the give stuff, go check out episode 24 with Laurie Rifkin. But the question I have for you, David, is when I call somebody up and say, hey, I saw you left Miller Brewing, what’s in it for them? I guess the question is, I’m doing research for me, but how do I spin is not the word I want to use, but how do I bring value to that person?

[00:33:59.210] – David Perry

Well, you’re letting them help you. People are genuinely nice. It’s in the book, the actual opening line, but you essentially say, Hi, Rob, my name’s David Perry and I found your resume on Google and I knew that you used to be the operations director over at Miller Brewing and I’m doing a bit of research. Would you mind if I asked you a couple of questions? What is offensive about that? Nothing.

[00:34:29.850] – Rob @ Recruiting  Hell

You’re absolutely correct, sir.

[00:34:31.240] – David Perry

Especially the way you deliver it. I’m doing some research. I’ll give you an example. Anita and I that’s my business partner, Anita Martel. Anita and I were giving a course for a bunch of generals and Admirals that were retiring, okay? And I needed to go out and get real jobs. That’s what they said. Not me. They have real jobs. I think they have real jobs. Don’t get me in trouble. So they needed to go out and get new jobs. And we’re going through I’m explaining networking with the newly departed. And there’s a guy at the back of the room. There’s about 40 of them, only two women. And the guy at the back of the room says, Bullshit. And I said, Pardon me? He says, Bull. And I said, okay. I turned to Anita and I said, what time is it? She told me. I said, we got time for a break.

[00:35:15.770] – Robb @ Recruiting  Hell

She said, yeah.

[00:35:16.340] – David Perry

I said, okay, everybody except you, Mr. Bullet, back of the room, who turned out to be a three star Navy Admiral, by the way. Wow. I said, Everybody else has got a 15 minutes break. Go through your stuff. You coming up front. So he comes up front, and I said, here’s what we’re going to do. You tell me the name of some company that you think you’d like to work for, okay? Okay. I’m going to show you how this works. So we spent about five minutes, and I showed him how this works. And I found somebody resume at the company that he wanted to work for. And I said, okay, when everybody comes back in, I’m going to do this live. I put my iPhone down, whatever it was, and I dial the number, put them on speakerphone, everybody’s around me. And I go, Hi, Billy. My name’s David Perry, and I just found your resume on Google. And I understand you used to work at IBM in the program Department for naval frigates. I said, And I’m doing some research. Can I ask you a couple of quick questions? And he goes, yeah, I’d love to help you, but right now I’m in the middle of something.

[00:36:18.880] – David Perry

Can you call me tonight after hours? I said, Absolutely, Billy. What’s your number? And I wrote it down. I said, thank you very much. I’ll call you tonight. And I hung up. That’s how you do it. It takes time. And you know what people say? I can’t call a stranger. And I got in trouble doing this, but I can’t call a stranger. I said, well, you know what? Yeah, you can. No one has ever died by calling someone and having to yell at you on the phone. You won’t get eviscerated. You won’t die because someone yells at you on the phone. And I have never in 35 years of dialing for dollars as a recruiter had anyone yell at me ever. Doesn’t happen. So it’s not going to happen. I said. And by the way, if you’re concerned, then pick up the names of three pig farms in your area and pull this on pig farms instead. You’re probably not going to want to go work at a pig farm, right?

[00:37:19.070] – Robb @ Recruiting  Hell

It won’t.

[00:37:20.260] – David Perry

So this is called a throwaway in sales. We’re going to try this to see if it works. And if it doesn’t work, I haven’t blown anything. So don’t start with your top ten. Start with a couple that you don’t think you’re ever going to work there anyway. I said this, by the way, in Saskatoon, when I was giving a speech who happened to be in the front row. It was Friday night. They had invited 600, 700 students that were graduating that summer. I was given a speech. I was given a session on a Saturday. So I said, listen, you want to invite them in Friday night? We’ll do a session just for the students. And this guy walked in, older guy in the 60s or 70s and sat in the front row and he was ineberrated he was a yes, you got it. Drunk pig farmer. We had to call security. We have this on video. We had to have them removed. So I don’t make that joke anymore. And I don’t talk about resume laundry much anymore either, because that’s another one that gets me in trouble.

[00:38:17.080] – Rob @ Recruiting  Hell

Got you. But you made an excellent point there, David, when you said that you might have some other folks don’t necessarily practice on your top ten. A very influential sales coach of mine actually told me, don’t practice on money, if you know what I mean. If you’re selling something, whether it’s yourself or an actual widget, you don’t practice on money.

[00:38:37.640] – David Perry

Do a couple of throwaways, make yourself comfortable.

[00:38:39.850] – Robb @ Recruiting  Hell

Sure. Definitely. Great stuff. Listeners, thank you so much for tuning in to our 50th episode of Recruiting Help. We could not be here without you. This conversation with David will continue again next week. He has so much to share about how to power up your job Hunt going forward, and we’ll make sure we take it from there with more of his strategies to help you get hired. As we draw this episode to a close, remember, you are worth more than your work. Your value to society is not dictated by what you do to pay your bills. Job hunting is difficult no matter your age, gender, location or background, and it’s both acceptable and to your benefit to seek every bit of help in conquering this challenge. For more from recruiting hell, subscribe to the show on your favorite podcast player or our YouTube channel. And don’t forget to leave a review of the show. If your podcast platform allows it, it’s tremendously helpful. Connect with Rob via LinkedIn, be sure to visit to subscribe to our newsletter, and of course, follow the show all across social media. Just look for the Orange and blue flame logo.

[00:39:45.750] – Robb @ Recruiting  Hell

Recruiting hell is a production of Westport Studios and is proudly made in Wisconsin. Lastly, be sure to visit and support our sponsors. They make it possible to do this show and make it better every single week. Remember, your job Hunt is a marathon, not a sprint. And recruiting health will be here to help you keep pace. Thanks for listening. Hey folks, it’s Rob. Are you looking for a new opportunity in an up and coming industry that can help you get out of recruiting health? Coinless, one of the fastest growing companies in the cryptocurrency space is hiring. That’s right. They not only support this show because they believe in it, but they believe that there’s great talent to be found in this audience. Generous comp, great flexibility, incredible benefits, a strong culture and a powerhouse team sound like a fit for you? Head to www. Coinless. Cojobs and apply today. That’s www. Coinless. Cojobs and be sure to let them know that you found them here on recruitinghell.



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